How can we Improve?
- Thread starter Sangemdoko
- Start date
@WeiYiHua For feature requests please make another thread.
This thread is more about how the devs can improve documenatation or make the tool easier to use.
That being said, the Integration should support any type of ItemCollection. If it does not then something isn't right. Make sure to explain what you are trying to achieve in detail and explain what you tried so far and why you think it doesn't work and how it "should" work (In a new thread)
This thread is more about how the devs can improve documenatation or make the tool easier to use.
That being said, the Integration should support any type of ItemCollection. If it does not then something isn't right. Make sure to explain what you are trying to achieve in detail and explain what you tried so far and why you think it doesn't work and how it "should" work (In a new thread)
1. Great! I might add one more level to show how an item definition isn't actually a "game item" but a blueprint for an item. In other words, one more row of boxes that shows like
Iron Sword Item Instance (exists in chest inventory) Iron Sword Item Instance (exists in player's inventory) Iron Sword Item Instance (A second player sword, currently equipped)
2. Never mind, looks like this is already the case (I'm sure you changed it at some point, just don't remember when). If I see any more instances where it isn't, I'll make a note.
3. Just saying add headers to make it a bit more obvious for new people. Like this:
4. I'm just saying these buttons tend to kind of disappear into the background. Like I remember when I was new, I kept "forgetting" where the page was that was under Integrations (then click other button at top). Maybe you can invert the colors of the selected one (so in my screenshot, [Setup] would have a white background and black letters?)
5. I see your point. Maybe add a confirmation if possible that can be toggled on/off? I instruct a client on calls, and he frequently wants to click on icons over words and so this happens like once a session, haha. I think it's something people more used to Phones and/or Apple devices tend to do.
9. How about just the first code snippet on that page?
But if I'm doing something wrong, or there's a better way, please let me know. I know Rider is supposed to be better, but (long story) have a bit of a grudge with them because they cancelled my student license back when I was in college. Probably should just suck it up and use it anyways, lol.
But the other thing is, a lot of these are my suggestions for improving for *any* novice picking up the asset off the asset store, and they might still be using VS 2019. A lot of my suggestions are things I've already learned to deal with... but that's just me personally.
10. I would then add a page explaining this is the case and include that file name. I'd like to say I don't forget things, but I'm afraid I'm in my mid 30s and it's starting to happen, and I also use like 10 assets on top of the opsive ones (which I own all of).
12. You could continue with what you have, but use the overloads as kind of a "redirect" to the existing functions. From my experiences (I was in IT after tech school for IT, before fulltime software dev, and also did uni in early 30s for a comp sci degree), overloads are more natural to me. It also doesn't quite match up with Justin's style as much, so it's a bit jarring trying to work with both, at times. Part of the thing about overloads, is instead of knowing exact function names, you can just type in something like "Item" and then look through the list in VS.
Iron Sword Item Instance (exists in chest inventory) Iron Sword Item Instance (exists in player's inventory) Iron Sword Item Instance (A second player sword, currently equipped)
2. Never mind, looks like this is already the case (I'm sure you changed it at some point, just don't remember when). If I see any more instances where it isn't, I'll make a note.
3. Just saying add headers to make it a bit more obvious for new people. Like this:
4. I'm just saying these buttons tend to kind of disappear into the background. Like I remember when I was new, I kept "forgetting" where the page was that was under Integrations (then click other button at top). Maybe you can invert the colors of the selected one (so in my screenshot, [Setup] would have a white background and black letters?)
5. I see your point. Maybe add a confirmation if possible that can be toggled on/off? I instruct a client on calls, and he frequently wants to click on icons over words and so this happens like once a session, haha. I think it's something people more used to Phones and/or Apple devices tend to do.
9. How about just the first code snippet on that page?
VS 2019 will just write an error line and if you go to suggestions, *occasionally* it finds the correct namespace, but often doesn't. I think the more integrations/assets you have the worse it works. For example, you add all the major opsive support integrations (ie. quest manager) and there's more overlapping function names.
But if I'm doing something wrong, or there's a better way, please let me know. I know Rider is supposed to be better, but (long story) have a bit of a grudge with them because they cancelled my student license back when I was in college. Probably should just suck it up and use it anyways, lol.
But the other thing is, a lot of these are my suggestions for improving for *any* novice picking up the asset off the asset store, and they might still be using VS 2019. A lot of my suggestions are things I've already learned to deal with... but that's just me personally.
10. I would then add a page explaining this is the case and include that file name. I'd like to say I don't forget things, but I'm afraid I'm in my mid 30s and it's starting to happen, and I also use like 10 assets on top of the opsive ones (which I own all of).
12. You could continue with what you have, but use the overloads as kind of a "redirect" to the existing functions. From my experiences (I was in IT after tech school for IT, before fulltime software dev, and also did uni in early 30s for a comp sci degree), overloads are more natural to me. It also doesn't quite match up with Justin's style as much, so it's a bit jarring trying to work with both, at times. Part of the thing about overloads, is instead of knowing exact function names, you can just type in something like "Item" and then look through the list in VS.
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Thank you @DavidC for the continous feedback.
Thank you for the screenshots, that clarifies it
I think I agree with most of your points. I'm going to add all of them in my TODO list for the next major update (no ETA yet on that one).
We still have a few minor updates for bug fixing planned before the next major update
Thank you for the screenshots, that clarifies it
I think I agree with most of your points. I'm going to add all of them in my TODO list for the next major update (no ETA yet on that one).
We still have a few minor updates for bug fixing planned before the next major update
DainBramages
New member
I've spent hours and hours trying to get the Third Person Controller to work (the installer for the add-ons was broken when I bought it but it works now at least but there were tons of other issues). Then I had to figure out the obfuscated inventory system and wasted hours and hours. And once all that started working, I broke everything by trying to integrate and learn to make the UIS work. There aren't enough hours in the day for me to even consider the Behavior system yet. But the UIS <**CRASHES all the time**> when messing with item sets and slots and whatsits with the RPG schema. It is very frustrating. I'm using the 2021.3.19f1 unity version and the latest of everything Opsive. Crash. Crash. Crash.
All the crashes, frustrating tutorials, and obfuscated systems, make me feel like this product is just buggy bloatware. I could have created my own controller and inventory system by now and probably had hours of my life back. What good is such a customizable system if only the guy who made it fully understands it? The videos act like you are going to learn to do something from scratch but ALWAYS start pulling in dozens and dozens of premade assets. The early videos act like you are going to be creating an inventory system. NOPE. Just scratching the surface. Do you have to watch six hours of videos to set up an inventory? Because following along it is many, many more hours than six. Not even counting hours of videos to learn the other stuff. Really? It's probably 20 hours of video following time. And once you've done that, you can still walk away unsure on a lot of things. Well, the only thing you can be sure of is that you wasted a lot of time and money.
So far, NONE OF THE OPSIVE PRODUCTS HAVE MADE MY LIFE EASIER - ONLY HARDER. If I didn't have coding experience, I'd have uninstalled and quit this product the first day. I'm just enduring and suffering and hoping it eventually all works and makes sense. But I definitely won't any of these products on my game after this one.
All the crashes, frustrating tutorials, and obfuscated systems, make me feel like this product is just buggy bloatware. I could have created my own controller and inventory system by now and probably had hours of my life back. What good is such a customizable system if only the guy who made it fully understands it? The videos act like you are going to learn to do something from scratch but ALWAYS start pulling in dozens and dozens of premade assets. The early videos act like you are going to be creating an inventory system. NOPE. Just scratching the surface. Do you have to watch six hours of videos to set up an inventory? Because following along it is many, many more hours than six. Not even counting hours of videos to learn the other stuff. Really? It's probably 20 hours of video following time. And once you've done that, you can still walk away unsure on a lot of things. Well, the only thing you can be sure of is that you wasted a lot of time and money.
So far, NONE OF THE OPSIVE PRODUCTS HAVE MADE MY LIFE EASIER - ONLY HARDER. If I didn't have coding experience, I'd have uninstalled and quit this product the first day. I'm just enduring and suffering and hoping it eventually all works and makes sense. But I definitely won't any of these products on my game after this one.
What crashes are you getting? I have issues with Unity 2022, but not with 2021, so I'm surprised to hear this. Unity 2022 seems to have more issues in general (unrelated to Opsive). Typically I'm getting errors related to Unity Editor Redraws and Memory leaks.
It's unfortunate you spent time on the CC inventory when using UIS, as UIS almost fully replaces the schema.
Yes, even more-so if you aren't already familiar with Unity. The more customizable and flexible something is, the more complicated. There are very simple assets out there, but you'll realize they don't do what you want them to do (unless your design goals happen to be a 100% match), or they're very incomplete.
For example, I had bought Schmup Boss (side scrolling shooter template) and afterwards realized it wasn't set up to scroll vertically, just horizontally. I asked them to add it to a feature, and they said it wasn't in the list of included features, so I shouldn't have expected it and would have to do it myself.
Every template, for every game engine, you'll run into similar issues. Making a game, even with all these tools, isn't very easy. But it IS manageable.
Furthermore, if you want to do this long term, you will learn things that apply to all games, all engines, and even all templates. For example, in UCC you'll be exposed to (and probably have been already exposed to, but not fully understand)
Prefabs, for example, UIS using GUI prefabs to dynamically create grids.
Object Pooling
Event Systems
Arrays and serialization of those Arrays to the Unity Inspector (Example: Ability List)
Materials system
I can assure you would not be further along without UCC and UIS. Very experienced designers will not use a system like UCC but instead cobble together a bunch of assets (or make their own). For example, they'll stitch together Kinematic Character Controller (which is no longer updated so they might not anymore) which STRICTLY controls nothing but a capsule, with things like Puppet Master, a Camera controller, Emerald AI (behavior pack), Pooling Plus, an Event System asset, etc. All of which is just part of UCC inherently.
I don't always agree with every design decision of Opsive, and I'm at time frustrated by bugs and how it works. But believe me, I own 90% of the game templates on the asset store and it's #1 in this category. The only ones I don't own are some of the ones that cost $500+ like Atavism (MMORPG), or a few that have monthly/yearly subscription costs. By far, what makes Opsive #1 is the support available here by Justin and employees, and by the community here and on Discord. The schmup boss thing would probably have taken the designer no more than an hour to add since it's literally a 90 degree rotation in a few places, and they refused. I saw Justin add an entirely new top-down shooter system because one person was struggling to add it on their own.
Anyways, I'm not trying to sound defensive or like a fanboy, but I want to set your expectations here and also maybe save you money (I have wasted a lot...) Your experience somewhere else, like Inv3ctor or any Vis2k template (like the uSurvival template) will be 10x worse.
The most frustrating part of game design is this initial curve.
I wrote this a bit ago, and most of it is still relevant (I do need to update it here, but am still trying to learn all the ins and outs of the major version change a few months ago).
(v1.2) Getting Started + Tips & Tricks, a Guide by Davion13
Post 1: General Tips & Tricks Post 2: Advanced Tips & Tricks Post 3: Asset Resources (Free & Paid) Post 4: Resources General Tips & Tricks 1. Use 2020.3.(latest) LTS. 2021 is still very much "in development" and it is slower and more prone to crashing. 2. In a new project, install and setup...
www.opsive.com
Especially relevant part:
Also, remember that Opsive isn't a hugely profitable company or anything. Justin does most all of the work on UCC, Santiago for UIS, and they have a few other (part timers?) who, to my understanding mostly help answer people's questions.
The last thing I'll say is, while Unity is still the go-to for Indie Devs, and will be for at least 3+ years by my estimation, the company itself has taken a bit of a dive. They've done 3 rounds of layoffs in the last 12 months, they've axed a few important projects, and the CEO's shareholder statements and some interviews have been very out-of-touch. A lot of the latest versions of Unity are horrible buggy messes, and definitely don't use any major versions besides what Justin recommends (which I do believe is the version you are on). Do NOT go to 2022 right now (eventually I hope they'll fix it).
DainBramages
New member
I've done at least seven fresh installations with only Opsive products installed along with some models. It always ends in frustration. Changing settings in IUS causes crashes for me. Did you know that you have to change settings to "integrate" it yourself?
It's been "on the store for awhile" huh? It isn't just "the inventory system", though. It has to work with the controller for me. I'm sure UIS works great with a better controller. But you sell the controller and inventory on the same site with the same name, but they are NOT the same product at all. There is over an hour of videos on how to "integrate" the two products. Why can't you install them together and they just work? The settings for both are so convoluted they take hours and hours to learn. On top of that you are supposed "integrate" them yourself and then re-learn everything again. There are two completely separate inventory systems for items where one borrows from the other. You have to make it in one and then in the other. It is beyond unnecessary. User errors are hard to isolate on such complex bloated script systems.
Often the panels in the videos do not exactly match what is in the current version. I've watched a lot of videos. They don't fix my crashes or errors though. For instance, watch the video on how to make a magic item - definitely outdated. But tell me that it 'basically gives the idea' of how to make in item. Even though it doesn't call it that now. If you watch the videos, in one the inventory on the character will be setup one way and then in the next video, very different. It is all so convoluted.
So many times the videos say "You should make your own controller" or "You should make your own inventory database" and then every single video just uses premade assets again and again. Look how easy it is! We are supposed to completely understand how to craft a 12 layer controller with countless blend modes and like 600 animations and spend the time doing it. And then what? Plug it in to your framework of a billion dropdowns and blanks? We paid YOU so we wouldn't have to do that. FFS. The whole point of buying a controller is because someone else (with more experience and knowledge) crafted an optimized, well performing system for you leveraging components on the best update methods. We should be able to tweak a little and move on to game design. Not spend weeks trying to get some crisscrossing bloatware to perform without errors on Unity. The learning curve for these products is very steep. And it has nothing to do with pre-existing knowledge of Unity.
It's always something. I've done seven different installations and tried different versions. If this <obviously my fault issue> goes away, it will just be something else. My Unity crashes have been very rare before Opsive. And trying to get things working smoothly always ends in errors of some kind or something just not working. I've spent more time trying to get components set up correctly to not give errors than anything else.
Don't even get me started on the Behavior Designer. Because I can't get started on it. I'VE NEVER MADE IT THAT FAR. But, hey, I bought it. Hope it works with a different controller.
I know I'm not the only one who hates this set of products after dealing with it for so long. I can read. I can see and hear. I read the documentation. I watched the videos. It should be easy. It just doesn't work. I don't think I can re-watch those videos again to see what I messed up. I can hit play and my weapons work. Hit stop. Hit play again and my weapons don't work. WTF? Next time, maybe yes, maybe no. And not even have errors get thrown. Debug it. Right. Okay.
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DainBramages
New member
(I'm using the most recent 2021 LTS Unity version). I did an 8th install on a different computer. Unity still crashes if you mess with item set managers using the third person controller and UIS. Telling me how stable a product it is doesn't make it magically work. Adding a third slot to the player character in UCC and adjusting the item set manager after that always results in all kinds of random crashing for me. So, I can't give advice on how to improve a product that simply does not work. Super not impressed with UCC and UIS together (BOTH by Opsive). I've wasted so many hours troubleshooting errors and getting Unity crashes by this bloatware. Touting how customizable it is, with such a steep learning curve, doesn't mean a lot when the product simply does not work on such a basic level. Adding a third slot and trying to equip it in a stable manner shouldn't be a two week process. I'm going to move to a new product after I leave the appropriate reviews. I could have made my own modular controller and inventory by now. Even if it wouldn't be as efficient as this lie at least it would work. And if it didn't, I'd be able to troubleshoot efficiently, rather than scrolling through 30,000 lines of script I didn't write, trying to get a basic understanding of why it isn't working for me. I purchased the UCC Third Person Controller, UIS, Behavior Designer, BD Movement pack, and the Climbing and Agility add-ons. I couldn't be more disappointed. And I've wasted so much time and money. I was mislead by all of the strong reviews. I thought this would be a great package and investment and save me a lot of time. This did NOT streamline my game design process. It completely halted it. If I were making some asset flipping mobile game, then yeah, I bet it works great-ish keeping everything simple. With any ideas beyond that, this is garbageware and so results will vary. Tell me again how stable it is. I could not even install both the agility and climbing add-ons without a workaround until the last UCC update. And Malbers (not YOUR PROBLEM) integration STILL doesn't work since your last update either. This whole situation has been one giant bad investment of time and money. I don't even want anyone to try to fix my issues because they are clearly deeply buried in the untold number of lines of script. Freaking sick of watching your same videos over and over trying to be 100% sure if I did something wrong. But I did. I gave you my money and time.
DainBramages
New member
I appreciate you taking the time to make such a long post. And I understand that the guys at Opsive work a lot and work hard.What crashes are you getting? I have issues with Unity 2022, but not with 2021, so I'm surprised to hear this. Unity 2022 seems to have more issues in general (unrelated to Opsive). Typically I'm getting errors related to Unity Editor Redraws and Memory leaks.
It's unfortunate you spent time on the CC inventory when using UIS, as UIS almost fully replaces the schema.
Yes, even more-so if you aren't already familiar with Unity. The more customizable and flexible something is, the more complicated. There are very simple assets out there, but you'll realize they don't do what you want them to do (unless your design goals happen to be a 100% match), or they're very incomplete.
For example, I had bought Schmup Boss (side scrolling shooter template) and afterwards realized it wasn't set up to scroll vertically, just horizontally. I asked them to add it to a feature, and they said it wasn't in the list of included features, so I shouldn't have expected it and would have to do it myself.
Every template, for every game engine, you'll run into similar issues. Making a game, even with all these tools, isn't very easy. But it IS manageable.
Furthermore, if you want to do this long term, you will learn things that apply to all games, all engines, and even all templates. For example, in UCC you'll be exposed to (and probably have been already exposed to, but not fully understand)
Prefabs, for example, UIS using GUI prefabs to dynamically create grids.
Object Pooling
Event Systems
Arrays and serialization of those Arrays to the Unity Inspector (Example: Ability List)
Materials system
I can assure you would not be further along without UCC and UIS. Very experienced designers will not use a system like UCC but instead cobble together a bunch of assets (or make their own). For example, they'll stitch together Kinematic Character Controller (which is no longer updated so they might not anymore) which STRICTLY controls nothing but a capsule, with things like Puppet Master, a Camera controller, Emerald AI (behavior pack), Pooling Plus, an Event System asset, etc. All of which is just part of UCC inherently.
I don't always agree with every design decision of Opsive, and I'm at time frustrated by bugs and how it works. But believe me, I own 90% of the game templates on the asset store and it's #1 in this category. The only ones I don't own are some of the ones that cost $500+ like Atavism (MMORPG), or a few that have monthly/yearly subscription costs. By far, what makes Opsive #1 is the support available here by Justin and employees, and by the community here and on Discord. The schmup boss thing would probably have taken the designer no more than an hour to add since it's literally a 90 degree rotation in a few places, and they refused. I saw Justin add an entirely new top-down shooter system because one person was struggling to add it on their own.
Anyways, I'm not trying to sound defensive or like a fanboy, but I want to set your expectations here and also maybe save you money (I have wasted a lot...) Your experience somewhere else, like Inv3ctor or any Vis2k template (like the uSurvival template) will be 10x worse.
The most frustrating part of game design is this initial curve.
I wrote this a bit ago, and most of it is still relevant (I do need to update it here, but am still trying to learn all the ins and outs of the major version change a few months ago).
(v1.2) Getting Started + Tips & Tricks, a Guide by Davion13
Post 1: General Tips & Tricks Post 2: Advanced Tips & Tricks Post 3: Asset Resources (Free & Paid) Post 4: Resources General Tips & Tricks 1. Use 2020.3.(latest) LTS. 2021 is still very much "in development" and it is slower and more prone to crashing. 2. In a new project, install and setup...
Especially relevant part:
Also, remember that Opsive isn't a hugely profitable company or anything. Justin does most all of the work on UCC, Santiago for UIS, and they have a few other (part timers?) who, to my understanding mostly help answer people's questions.
The last thing I'll say is, while Unity is still the go-to for Indie Devs, and will be for at least 3+ years by my estimation, the company itself has taken a bit of a dive. They've done 3 rounds of layoffs in the last 12 months, they've axed a few important projects, and the CEO's shareholder statements and some interviews have been very out-of-touch. A lot of the latest versions of Unity are horrible buggy messes, and definitely don't use any major versions besides what Justin recommends (which I do believe is the version you are on). Do NOT go to 2022 right now (eventually I hope they'll fix it).
But when I add third slot to a character in UCC everything starts breaking for me. Unity crashes a lot. When I do things with the item set manager from UIS and other related things, Unity crashes. Before I add that third slot, things do seem to be stable. I've had 8 different installs on two different computers to figure this out. It just doesn't work. Maybe if I hit all the right settings it will. But I haven't.
Can you create a new thread with the errors that you are having with a third item slot? I'll then have a better idea on what the problem is.
In total we have thousands of hours of development time invested in both of these assets. I'm confident even though you are hitting some errors it'll still be easier to use the controller rather than starting from scratch with a new controller and inventory. There is a learning curve associated with each asset and it's best to take it one step at a time. If you hit any errors you can create a new thread with the steps that you took to get to those errors and we'll have a better idea of what the issue is.
At a high level having a third slot isn't an issue. The character controller / integration demo scene has a third slot so I know the functionality works, but the included demo animator doesn't contain a third slot so depending on what you are doing you are going to need to setup more than what you had to do with the first and second slot.
In total we have thousands of hours of development time invested in both of these assets. I'm confident even though you are hitting some errors it'll still be easier to use the controller rather than starting from scratch with a new controller and inventory. There is a learning curve associated with each asset and it's best to take it one step at a time. If you hit any errors you can create a new thread with the steps that you took to get to those errors and we'll have a better idea of what the issue is.
At a high level having a third slot isn't an issue. The character controller / integration demo scene has a third slot so I know the functionality works, but the included demo animator doesn't contain a third slot so depending on what you are doing you are going to need to setup more than what you had to do with the first and second slot.
jkaczmar
New member
I just made the move from Game Creator 2 to the Opsive platform (UCC, UIS, Behavior Designer). I can program in C#, but I'm very slow. I've been able to pick up PlayMaker very quickly as it has a lot in common with Game Creator 2. The integration with PlayMaker is quite good for the 3 products, but it would be helpful if there were more Actions added over time. An example would be something that let's you check equipped items as this is a common activity you have to do set player stats for attack, defense, etc.
Apart from that, it's a solid suite of products. I've been able to reach functional parity with my GC2 pilot in about a month with Opsive. I've owned the products for years, but I opted for GC2 because Opsive was a bit daunting at the time. Having had another year's worth of Unity development experience, it's much more accessible. I would echo some of the other comments above, that while Opsive has great support, documentation, videos, etc. it's tough to pick up as a novice.
Apart from that, it's a solid suite of products. I've been able to reach functional parity with my GC2 pilot in about a month with Opsive. I've owned the products for years, but I opted for GC2 because Opsive was a bit daunting at the time. Having had another year's worth of Unity development experience, it's much more accessible. I would echo some of the other comments above, that while Opsive has great support, documentation, videos, etc. it's tough to pick up as a novice.
Originally had a big message but just filled with fluff.. I also agree that it would be nice to have playmaker actions added over time.
I think you can use the get and set actions to check the item collection purpose of equipped to get equipped items but I think for example if you wanted to get and set for the offhand weapon I dont think you could without putting its item definition which would be pointless since games tend to have many gun options so you wouldnt be able to just put in an item definition.
I would love to see more control over the inventory, its actions, and getting more specific information with playmaker. For visual programmers it is a must to have good actions for these kind of assets.
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